Forum DDay-Overlord - Jour J - 6 juin 1944 - Bataille de Normandie

[MLQ]

Bonjour

je cherche à consulter une carte du Nord de Saint-Lô utilisée par les Américains
car avec les cartes IGN actuelles j'ai un problème de localisation de cette Hill 108 "Purple Heart Hill", 175th Inf. 29th US ID

d'avance merci

[Marc Laurenceau]

Petite précision en passant, le terme cote s'écrit sans accent circonflexe. Contrairement à ce que l'on pourrait croire, il ne fait pas référence à la côte mais bien au dénivelé du terrain. Donc : cote 108.

Bien cordialement.

[weyax]

Take this and say hill 108 oder in deutsch Höhe 108, thats easier





Salutation

[Major J.Howard]

Plus d'infos : http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... 16661.html

[MLQ]

Bonjour

Merci à weyax pour la carte et à Major J. Howard pour le lien (que je connaissais).
En fait je voulais une confirmation car cette Hill 108 est donnée au Nord de Villiers Fossard dans ce livre
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/3212575022
en donnant comme référence: Cross Channel Attack de Gordon A. Harrison, ce qui est douteux car la seule citation est ici:
"In the 175th Infantry zone only the 1st Battalion attacked on 17 June. On Hill 108 it ran into heavy enemy artillery and machine gun fire and at 1440 reported that it was unable to advance. About the same time the 2d Battalion, which had held in position just northwest of the 1st, reported a counterattack that seemed designed by the Germans to cut off the 1st Battalion. Although the enemy made no significant penetrations of the 175th Infantry's lines, the advance southward was effectively halted."
la localisation de weyax confirme bien celle de PhotosNormandie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photosnorm ... 0603529658

Merci et bien cordialement

[Marc Laurenceau]

- D'après cet autre lien qui reprend les photos vues dans les posts précédents avec quelques explications supplémentaires : http://www.backtonormandy.org/component ... l-108.html, la cote 108 est située à l'ouest de Villiers-Fossard et au nord du Mesnil-Rouxelin.

- Voici un article sur l'installation par les vétérans de la plaque commémorative de la cote 118 en l'honneur de la 29th. Les difficultés liées à la localisation vont jusqu'à poser problème pour le choix de l'emplacement de cette plaque :

"Recalling a fight for a forgotten hill By Gus G. Sentementes
November 11, 2008

They have never forgotten Hill 108.

It wasn't much of a hill - more of a gentle slope dotted with apple orchards, pastures, wheat fields and hedgerows - the four World War II veterans said jokingly during a recent interview in Baltimore. But they fought for three days on this patch of land in France, which got its name because it is 108 meters above sea level, and they suffered some of the highest casualty rates of the war until they finally wrested it from the Germans.

"Every time we took one of these fields, we lost men," said Steven Melnikoff, 88, who was shot during the fight for the hill. He recovered from that wound but was injured by shrapnel in a later battle.

In their 80s and 90s now, they have been bothered by the lack of a memorial for the sacrifices that hundreds of Americans made on Hill 108, which was dubbed "Purple Heart Hill."

Memorials abound for other battles in the Normandy region, where the Allies launched the invasion against the entrenched Germans on June 6, 1944. But there is none for Hill 108, where there were 600 casualties, including at least 164 killed.

The design for the monument calls for a block of French marble nearly 10 feet tall and 3 feet wide, with the symbol of the 29th Infantry Division and a bronze plaque inscribed with a short history of the division and the battle for Hill 108. The monument that the veterans aim to build would not be on the hill, which is difficult to reach and out of the way, they said. Instead, it would be in a square at a nearby village, Villiers-Fossard.

They know of only about a dozen veterans - members of the 175th Regiment in the National Guard's 29th Infantry Division - who are still alive and who fought on Hill 108. Many of those who died were from Maryland and Virginia.

"You ask why we won?" George E. Linthicum III, 72, a retired lieutenant colonel with the 175th, asked during an interview at the 5th Regiment Armory in Baltimore. Pointing to each of the veterans, he answered: "Well, he's why, and he's why, and he's why, and he's why."

The four men were William Doyle , 94, and Melnikoff, who were technical sergeants; William Douglas, 89, a staff sergeant; and Samuel R. Krauss, 91, a private. The men, who all live in the Baltimore area, remembered vividly the importance of seizing Hill 108 and the great sacrifice it took.

The battle for the hill started June 16, 1944, 10 days after about 130,000 Allied troops landed on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day.

The Allies needed to control the high ground around St. Lo, a town that was a strategic crossroads in the region. A few miles north of St. Lo, the hill was a gently sloping piece of land interrupted by high hedgerows.

The hedgerows made it difficult for tanks to operate and offered the Germans cover. The veterans recalled how the Germans, who were difficult to spot behind the hedgerows, would let them come into the fields before opening up with automatic weapons.

The veterans said the battle was fought at close range. They watched many of their friends die or get wounded over three days, as American infantry advanced on German positions, and then the Germans launched punishing counterattacks. At one point, the Germans offered the Americans the opportunity to surrender, but Lt. Col. Roger S. Whiteford, who had been wounded, rejected the offer and hung on for victory. His relatives made a donation for the monument, the veterans said.

Krauss said that at one point, he went to scout German positions with four men. Thinking one wheat field was clear, he waved the men in - and the Germans promptly opened fire.

The four men were mowed down. Krauss was shot in the shoulder.

To this day, he said, he can't hold his right arm high enough to comb what little hair he has left.

On the first day of fighting on the hill, Melnikoff, who grew up in Rhode Island, saw his best friend, who was from New Hampshire, killed.

On the second day, he watched as the Germans suddenly opened fire on the U.S. position. He was shot in the neck. But his lieutenant did not duck in time, and he was riddled with bullets.

"He didn't get down. I hit the deck," Melnikoff said. "The fire was directed toward him instead of me."

The Allies closed in on St. Lo and eventually took control of the town in mid-July, about a month after the battle of Hill 108. Allied warplanes and artillery destroyed the town with constant bombing. In honor of its stand on Hill 108, the 1st Battalion, 175th Regiment earned a Presidential Unit Citation.

"We didn't quit. We didn't stop fighting," said Doyle, when asked about why he and his men succeeded on Hill 108. "We just kept going." "

Bien cordialement.

[MLQ]

Bonjour

Grâce à un ami qui a efectué ce repérage


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le champ de nos jours
http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=H%C3%B4tel ... e&t=h&z=18

[MLQ]

Bonjour

J'ai trouvé la source de l'erreur


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Il ne fallait pas chercher dans le texte de Cross Channel Attack mais dans les cartes


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source:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... nel-XX.jpg
la cote 108 de cette carte correspond à la cote 108 de carte d'E.M. français du début du XXé siècle


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Aujourd'hui la carte IGN donne pour ce lieu 82

Ceci conforte mon idée de consulter une carte utilisée par les Américains en 44, celle présentée par weyax n'est pas assez lisible

[Marc Laurenceau]

Bien joué pour la découverte.

C'est malheureusement une erreur fréquente dans l'histoire militaire. Il existe parfois sur les cartes d'état-major plusieurs points cotés de la même hauteur dans le même coin de carreau ce qui ne facilite pas ni le travail des militaires ni celui des historiens et des passionnés.

Bien cordialement.

[MLQ]

Bonjour

J'avance
dans ce livre que je viens d'acheter:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/763650 ... hotostream
page 114 une carte US établie sur feuille au 1/50 000 de l'IGN, abandonnée à La Meauffe
la cote 108 (indication manuelle) est au Nord-ouest de Villiers Fossard


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Et ici une carte provenant du 175th Inf.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/764419 ... hotostream