Batterie de Maisy

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Bunker14
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : 20 mai, 23:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Bunker14 »

[quote="Marc"]
D'autres sources soutiennent la présence de canons de 105 : dans un hors série de la revue 39-45 Magazine daté de 1986, dans le livre de cité par patelie sur ce forum Omaha Beachhead publié en 1945.
.[/quote]

pour moi les revues 39/45 ne sont pas des sources d'archives fiable à, 100%
rien ne vaut les Archives allemandes

slt


Marc Laurenceau
Messages : 2684
Enregistré le : 20 juil., 23:00
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Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Marc Laurenceau »

Voici un message de Gary Sterne qui récapitule l'ensemble du débat en cours :

"Dear Patrick - I would like to respond to you personally as you seem to want to talk about me and Maisy alot.

I have enclosed a photograph of 2 x 155mm schneider howitzer shells. They were found at the site recently and removed by the Gendarmerie - they are live but not fused and their driving bands are intact. Which means they were not prepared ready to fire yet. Therefore not fired shells.

I can also show you 37mm Flak rounds, 50mm Anti Tank rounds and 105mm steel German shell cases - all found on the site. I hope that will help end your debate on the calibres.

Bunker 14 - I can actually see the difference between 100mm and 105mm cases... it is 5mm on my ruler !

Next... As Marc has already mentioned the ammunition from the site and the local area was all placed in a field well away from the site. This is easily checked with the mayors office in Grandcamp as records and personal accounts exist.

The German prisoners were kept at Maisy after the war to clear the site - not to bring ammunition onto the site where they were living in tents.

Patrick - as we discussed when you visited the site - There were a number of 88's covering Maisy - I remember you and others laughing about this along time ago. You didnt laugh when I said exactly where they were destroyed on D-day ?!

Marc and I visited the house where the Flak Captain was based and I collected photographs, postcards and cartoons drawn by the officers...this is also easily proved - just ask Marc. The flak unit moved into the area in 1942 until D-day for the defence of Maisy. You and I discussed this and other matters relating to the 88's - perhaps you have forgotten the conversation or do not want to discuss this here ?

I have found the locations of 9 of the 12 x 88's of this unit - 3 still to locate. We did discuss this when you visited and if you want to come and see where they were I am happy to show you.

I have also noticed that you have not discussed the big Flak control building which you saw dug up at Maisy recently. You will remember I showed you photographs of the same model of building in use in Brittany as a Radar Flak control centre. I wonder why you havent discussed this on the forum as the building is rare ­ you seem to want to make the battery out to be of no consequence. I believe there are only 2 of this type of building along the Atlantic Wall - surely this is interesting to your readers ?

It is obvious that Colonel Kistowski's flak battalion were set up on the road at Maisy to defend the Luftwaffe's own centre and that is why they shot down do many Allied aircraft on D-day.

Future development at Maisy.... I am now digging up more buildings on the site so perhaps you or Bunker 14 would like to tell me and everyone else what they are - before I uncover them. ??? Bunker 14 perhaps you can tell us all what they are before I dig them up as you are the expert on Maisy.? I would have liked to have spoken to you at length at St. Mairie Eglise when we met - but you were in a hurry to get away it appeared.

Dear Patrick... you wrote. "absolutely marvellous! Mr. Sterne makes rewrite the after action carryforward 63 years after the facts. There will be all considering. In relation to the Rangers after action report."

It might be amusing to suggest that I am inventing the battle and what happened - but all my information comes from veterans and is checked with other veterans. Marc is correct - the After Action Report for the 5th Battalion has now been officially changed by the man who wrote the original report. Just because you have not yet seen it dosn't mean it has not been changed.

Here is a direct quote from the Ranger who wrote the ORIGINAL after action report in 1944. He is still alive now..... I quote ...
"Your map is very interesting and useful. Based on it and your text, I have rewritten a part of my story to reflect your findings, since they fit well with my memories and other sources. The way I originally wrote it, I had to stretch a few points to make it fit with other sources, but the new version fits much better. Here it is. "

It is now over a page and a half in length rather than the original 4 lines and it is recognised that the original was written quickly after a brief conversation with a member of A company. I think that is significant and it is also important that the correct history is recorded.

Why do you suggest that I am making up the story? Why can you not accept that the 5th Battalion should be credited for their efforts at Maisy.

Patrick... If you would like me too, I will provide you privately with the email address of the Ranger veteran who wrote the after action report in 1944 and the amended version in 2006 - you can tell him that I am wrong and see what he says... he currently holds the rank of Brigadier General in the US Army.

So far the arguments on this forum over the last couple of years have suggested that I have invented the battle and statistics....the arguments change... get proved wrong and something else is suggested... I have to account for the acusations and some continue to make them... the best being that "I live in Holland - I dont have to come to Normandy to see that you dont have a hospital at Maisy..." - a classic !

Some other things that have been said are these...

Maisy was insignificant - proved wrong
Had no guns on the site - proved wrong
Had no ammunition - proved wrong
Had no AA (88's) - proved wrong
No hospital - proved wrong
Ammunition stored at the site after the war - proved wrong
Played no part in D-day - proved wrong
Couldnt hit Omaha Beach on D-day - proved wrong
No battle took place on the site - proved wrong
Small Rangers battle - proved wrong
No ammunition to prove calibres has been found - proved wrong
I havent done any research in German archives - I have done lots... Germany and in Washington - wrong

Shall I go on ? ? ?

So I have some questions for you to answer...

Please tell me the name AND the RANK of the highest commanding officer at Maisy ?
What was he in command of normally and where was he stationed ?
How many times did Rommel visit Maisy ?
What happened to the 4 x 75mm's ?
What happened to the 4 x 105's ?
Why did the Admiral of the US Fleet mark the evaluation of Maisy "Top Secret" on 21st of June 1944 ?
Why does the post battle US evaluation of Maisy say 4 x 105mm howitzers ?
Why was the regional payroll for the 352nd Inf. Div. held at Maisy if it was not important ?
(some of the money was returned to the Rangers Museum in Grandcamp by a 5th Veteran 10 years ago for display).
What happened to the money after the battle ?
What were the SS officers doing at Maisy ?
German archives do not say there is a Hospital at Maisy - there is - please explain ?
There is no Flak communication centre in German archives but it is there - please explain ?

Also.... here is a list of the guns at Maisy on the 6th of June 1944.... if I am wrong YOU tell why I am wrong. Give me facts not just some document written on a scrap of paper... I have seen all them before - all inaccurate so far. Remember the guy who kept saying he had seen documents and there was no hospital at Maisy ?

Here is the list for D-day...
12 x 88mm AA guns - stationed in and around Maisy village. Before Kistowskis flak battalion which arrived 5th June 44 at Maisy.
6 x 155mm Howitzers (sFH 414 (f)) - 4 in concrete pits and 2 in field.
Patrick - If you want to come to the site whenever you wish - I will take you to see local French people who were at the site after D-day who will varify the number of 155mm guns as being 6 - not 4.
( I can provide you with veterans testimonies on the number of guns. Also the aerial photographs show 6 x guns at the site. I have physical evidence which you can see. ) I also own wheels from these guns.

4 x 75mm Howitzers (f)
1 x Russian Howitzer for illumination
4 x 105mm (T) 14/19 - 105mm German calibre.
2 x 50mm KwK
2 x 37mm Flak
2 - (possibly) 4 x 20mm AA

I have not included mortars and the weapons at the sea front with the observation post in front of the site or at the water tower.

Also - Patrick as we discussed on your visit. Please can you, or an expert tell me why the "experts" have not recorded the 8 - 10 US airborne troops dead in the trees and the 21 US airborne captured alive at Maisy as recorded by the German officers - in writing at the time - at Maisy on D-day.

As you will remember we discussed that it makes 29 - 31 paratroopers at Maisy - dead or alive. Can you please explain why no "expert" has named them or their unit.

As you know - I have NEVER named their unit as I have NO knowledge of airborne activities. You are the Airborne expert or you will know someone who is... Paul I know was looking into this but hasn't spoken to me for a while. Please can you give me their names and unit - perhaps from a book which has been written, so I can include it in my research. Or ... are they just listed as KIA somewhere - perhaps at sea by someone who hasn't done their homework.

ALL the Ranger veterans I have spoken too..... and that is alot. Say - "there were dead paratroopers in the trees at Maisy"... I have large and small pieces of US parachutes from my digging at Maisy so this is not in question. Plus lots of local testimonies... people getting married in chutes after war from Maisy etc.

Lets get these guys properly identified and not just listed as dying somewhere else. That is not a worthy end to their combat. I am not making wild claims - this is your field of expertise so do you best for them. Can someone do this properly for them and their families. I am sure "crashed at sea" is not an adequate end.

To end... if I have actually said something directly with which you disagree then please make a comment about it. Don't take the wild claims of others on websites and suggest that I have actually said it.

Come and see the site at Maisy before making posts... There is alot more to the battle at Maisy and in due course it will all come out.

I still find it interesting that before I dug up the site it was not discussed anywhere... now everyone has an opinion... All visitors get the opportunity to see some of the digging photographs... with before, during and after shots.

Finally... when I spoke to 3 x 5th Ranger veterans this last week - each one said "nobody has ever asked me about Maisy before"..... why not ?

Give these guys the credit for what they did ... we are allowed to have debates like this as a result of their efforts 60 years ago.

RLTW

Gary Sterne
Maisy Battery
"


Cordialement.


Marc Laurenceau
Webmaster du site DDay-Overlord et du forum
Auteur du livre Jour J Heure par Heure

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Bunker14
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : 20 mai, 23:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Bunker14 »

bonjour

vous parlez de qu'elle unité de flak en position en 1942???

pour le pc de flak de quel model est il?(L479 Image )? avez vous une photo ?

a part les fluko , je ne connais aucun centre luft (model type) dans ce secteur


je ne suis pas l'expert de maisy mais quand je lit vos messages J'espère que ce n'est pas vous!
pour l'hopital j'attend toujours vos preuves!! car pour le moment jai juste vu un tole métro explosé
pour le stock de munition sur le site , cela vient de temoignages d'anciens du 3em Rgt du geni

le tire sur omaha c'est prouvé avec le model des canons et leur portés de tire


un conseil pour vous " il y a de la doc sur maisy au SHM de cherbourg""

pour la flak à maisy des documents Allemands en parlent

et....aprés les 6 x155 les 4x105 les 12x88mm .. vous parlez de 4 x 75 (f)

a quand les 6 x 460 mm à Maisy???

bonne soirée


Bunker14
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : 20 mai, 23:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Bunker14 »

[quote="Gary Sterne"]
4 x 105mm (T) 14/19 - 105mm German calibre.
t.[/quote]


le 105 14/19 (t) n'existe pas!!!

c'est le 100 14/19(t)


Marc Laurenceau
Messages : 2684
Enregistré le : 20 juil., 23:00
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Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Marc Laurenceau »

Concernant les canons de 75 mm, je pense que Gary Sterne s'appuie sur la carte déjà donnée sur le forum, réalisée quelques semaines après le débarquement par les membres du service de renseignement militaire allié après observation des picèces laissées sur place (lien : http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.ph ... u=10054332 ) par les Allemands.

Il est en effet indiqué la présence de 4 canons de 75 mm.

Cordialement.


Marc Laurenceau
Webmaster du site DDay-Overlord et du forum
Auteur du livre Jour J Heure par Heure

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Bunker14
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : 20 mai, 23:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Bunker14 »

ok mais il est aussi dit sur cette carte 4 x 155 et non 6! (5) 9./1716
et pour l'autre batterie 4 x 75 mm (16) 8./1716
et donc au sud une autre batterie de 75 mm (16 A)

alors pourquoi mr Stern parle de 105, cette carte de 75 et les archives Allemandes de 100 mm a la 8./1716??
etr

la position (16 A) sur catte catre est l'emplacement de la batterie de 100 mm placé en arriére de la batterie lors de la construction des 612

comme pour la pointe du Hoc


Marc Laurenceau
Messages : 2684
Enregistré le : 20 juil., 23:00
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Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Marc Laurenceau »

J'espère que nous aurons les réponses à ces questions bientôt.

Pour ma part le plan semble indiquer que les points 16 et 16A renvoient effectivement aux mêmes canons déplacés, mais la carte indique : 4x75G.

Cordialement.


Marc Laurenceau
Webmaster du site DDay-Overlord et du forum
Auteur du livre Jour J Heure par Heure

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Bunker14
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : 20 mai, 23:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Bunker14 »

[quote="Marc"]Concernant les pièces d'artillerie situées au Nord du site, considérées au départ par M. Sterne comme de possibles canons de 88 mm, la confirmation de leurre a été faite.

Après différentes interviews de civils de Maisy (en présence de M. Sterne), il m'a été confirmé que les Allemands y avaient installé des poteaux à la place de réelles pièces. Les habitants s'en souvenaient bien pour y avoir été après le débarquement, ce qui confirme bien la thèse des leurres[/quote]


Si Stern a enfin remarqué les fausses batteries au nord du site

ou place t'il aujourd'hui les fameux 88 mm???

cordialement :salut:


Marc Laurenceau
Messages : 2684
Enregistré le : 20 juil., 23:00
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Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par Marc Laurenceau »

Concernant le 105 14/19 (t), il s'agit bien en effet du 100 14/19(t), c'est une erreur.

Cordialement.


Marc Laurenceau
Webmaster du site DDay-Overlord et du forum
Auteur du livre Jour J Heure par Heure

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gaga
Messages : 35
Enregistré le : 15 déc., 00:00

Batterie de Maisy

Message non lu par gaga »

la baterie est vraiment bien.


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